On censorship – an honest opinion

April 22, 2010 at 12:00 pm 18 comments


Do you really want your government to censor THIS?Do you really want your government to censor this cute picture?

I find myself in a weird position: Defending what seems to be something I don’t wanna defend.

On one hand, it’s one of the more… … … debatable issues out there: censorship of Japanese modern art depicting minors in sexually appealing positions (and in some cases, depicting said minors engaging in sexual acts). As a supposedly moralfag Christian, it is my responsibility to point out how sickening this is (and even though I’m actually desensitized to such things, from an intellectual standpoint, it is disturbing to see such things, for reasons I will explain below, and not because of some supposed idol worship of the innocence of the child) and most people would expect me to jump the shark and proceed to call for draconian legislation to ban such images.

On the other hand, cooler heads have said it’s a whole lot of paper and ink, and it doesn’t harm anyone. Better yet, the fact that such material exists might also help in curbing actual child abuse cases (if studies concerning pornography are to be believed). That, and that the resources could be better served freeing actual victims of child abuse. Since going nuts over supposedly fictional characters is supposedly doing a great disservice to children who are actually being abused (and I do believe the abused would agree with me on this).

Honestly, I really have nothing that might seem useful to the whole issue, even though I am believed to have a strongly-worded opinion on censorship in general. And I’ve given the whole issue much thought. Censorship (or rather, something similar), as I’ve said before, has backfired on itself and has led to people being more anti-establishment, even though it was probably done for thier own good.

Now, as a moralfag Christian, I’d like to say that porn, in any form OR fetish, no matter how useful it is in keeping sex crimes down, only illustrates how little faith we have in ourselves in trying to approach girls and asking them out (with zero intentions for trying to sleep with them). While I DO understand that a man has urges that require some form of physical relief that sometimes cannot be relieved by automatically jizzing in your pants at night, the fact that porn is used as an aid (rather than say, your imagination. Lewis Black has one or two things to say about that.) only goes to show how unimaginative a man has become. Yes, that applies even to me.

But does that mean I should campaign for people to actively censor what they do not like? That’s not my job, nor is it my responsibility. Some moralfag Christians think that they should be trying to block people from seeing such things. Let’s just say that as a moralfag Christian, my job is to point out the flaws and educate, not to censor. If my Father Up There deems it okay for me to see just how rotten, how despicable and how sickening the human condition is (Romans 8:23 becomes PERSONAL when you are in the Army, and it’s not about how the recruit is the lowest on the foodchain), then I should be cool with people CHOOSING to go see pictures (and idealized pictures at that) of of minors dressing up in “sexy” clothing, posing in erotic poses, and engaging in sexual acts. I’m only here to inform, first and foremost, and to live my life according to what I know.

On the flipside, censorship, especially when defined within a limited scope, can be extremely useful. The issue I have with censorship (especially in my country) is that the definition of what can be censored is not just plain vague, but highly contradictory at times. Which basically means, for some people, that it’s something used to control information, like what China does. In Singapore, while we do get the BBC and CNN, our local media outlet (yes there is only one media company in Singapore), does not cover what the opposition does, for reasons I’ll not discuss. That in itself is a form of censorship. A form of censorship that still puzzles me to this day. And in Singapore, you cannot speak your mind freely on things that do not toe the party line. No lie.

In any case, while I personally see no problem with people wanting to see idealized art of children in sexually provocative poses (or engaging in sexual acts) even though I have told them many times that there’s something wrong in viewing the materials (the issue here is NOT perversion, but a matter of confidence) because it’s THEIR choice, there is a problem with the fact that there are people and organizations out there who ARE wasting time on making decisions without understanding Japanese culture.

The issue then becomes less of a censorship issue, but rather why are they trying to actively ostracize Japan instead of, you know, trying to HELP them?

Or this?

Drm Note: My stance on censorship is this. “The most dangerous blade is a sheathed one.” I’d love to have it at hand for the inevitable, but it is my most sincere wish to never use it. It is also the same stance I take with abortion. Also, I think I’ll be talking about this issue for some time to come. Idle hands, etc.

Links because I am Obligated to.

Google Censors Lolicon
Google blocks Baka-Updates from Adsense

Google Blocks lolicon, the Aftermath
The Obligatory Reaction Piece
Obligatory Reaction Piece, Part 2
Why is Kuro Here I don’t Even
Yes To Freedom

Entry filed under: Anime, editorial. Tags: .

Impz got married. Fuck I am late to the party. My Spring Season, in under 40 words or less per show.

18 Comments Add your own

  • 1. lelangir  |  April 22, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    YOU are a moralfag? WHAT?

    Reply
  • 2. komidol  |  April 22, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    “only illustrates how little faith we have in ourselves in trying to approach girls and asking them out (with zero intentions for trying to sleep with them)”

    Hmm, if we want to go more abstract (and more off the issue of the events and lolicon art in general), I will say that I honestly believe loli, depending on the person, has nothing to do with man-woman relationships. I’m sure for some people, this may be hard to believe, but I think there is honestly a lot of lolicon’s out there who lead perfectly normal lives (even romantically), and just react lustfully to the art, using certain methods to “appreciate” the art. For most, especially considering Japanese culture, I believe the people who view this art on average are experiencing a culture phenomena very *very* different from their sexual relations or preferences.

    Hence the relationship of not just loli, but hentai in general, may come to an appreciation far beyond simple pornography. In some cases, I find it very difficult for any sort of animated nudity to even extend to the definition of “pornography”.

    You inspired a good idea, maybe I’ll write more about this.

    Reply
  • 3. FallenHeaven  |  April 22, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    “Better yet, the fact that such material exists might also help in curbing actual child abuse cases (if studies concerning pornography are to be believed). That, and that the resources could be better served freeing actual victims of child abuse.”

    I must ask you to cite a source on this. As far as I know, there are no studies proving this, or the opposing view that this material is linked to child abuse. Psychologically, wanting to be with someone under the age of 18 but older than 13 is normal, which is being reflected in Lolicon. It is when the ages start slipping below 13 that it starts becoming psychologically unacceptable. Since your talking about the censorship of Lolicon, there is no relation to child pornography to begin with as child pornography is linked to attraction at individuals under the age of 13.

    “Only illustrates how little faith we have in ourselves in trying to approach girls and asking them out (with zero intentions for trying to sleep with them)”

    I’m in agreement with komidol on this one. There is no evidence linking porn to a lack in self esteem aside from a partner using pornography in an interpersonal relationship to the point of addiction.

    Please explain how you came to these conclusions to me.

    -End Transmission-

    Reply
    • 4. drmchsr0  |  April 22, 2010 at 9:02 pm

      I can’t actually cite sources, because there are none to begin with.

      My conclusions, then, are based as a matter of faith, rather than cold, hard facts, since there’s probably none to begin with. So you do have to take them with a grain of salt. There’s a good chance that I may be wrong, and as new information comes to light, there’s a good chance that I might (or in this case, will) change my conclusions.

      Reply
      • 5. komidol  |  April 23, 2010 at 4:26 am

        Actually in regards to what drm said about pornography curbing the amount of rape, there is a source on it.

        http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/06/rape-porn-and-criminality-political.php

        As far as pornography deteriorating capable men away from relationships, I’m sure it happens to some people, but not all – that’s why I’m saying that it comes down to the person, and law shouldn’t exist that effects everyone because one guy *might* do something*, impedes on the freedoms of millions. That’s taking the blame off the person, and puts it on the porn, and sympathizes with rapists. But to a lesser extreme, I think most people in the world look at pornography and live normal (by even the UK’s standards) healthy lives.

        Though I still stand by what I said about lolicon art being a completely different phenomena entirely. I honestly don’t think it’s about the porn, it likely appeals to something else in the human mind for a strong appreciation of art. I think even a sexual reaction to it won’t necessairly reflect their personal lives or relationships with others.

      • 6. FallenHeaven  |  April 23, 2010 at 8:50 am

        I was not discussing the link between pornography and rape. I was talking about lolicon to child abuse. If there was a study that linked lolicon access to a decrease in child abuse. If there is, I would like to think that there is no relation. If there was a study of it and it proved positive that there is decrease in child abuse because of lolicon then it’s more of a reason to make it illegal as it is effectively saying viewers of the art are “Child Abusers in Progress” or gives the defense that viewers are sick in the head for liking something related to child abuse. It becomes very hard to draw the line at that point between who is someone who views it without any attraction to children and someone who is a child abuser. At this point, if you wish viewing of this material to remain legal, the idea that it decreases child abuse must be thrown out instead for a “There is no relation” point of view.

      • 7. komidol  |  April 23, 2010 at 5:21 pm

        More or less Fallen, I understand your point that if you say pornography is related to child abuse then you’re making a connection between the two. That could be seen as bad.

        However, Japan has one of the lowest rape rates in the world, so it’s often used as a point that their flourishing pornographic industry is a reason for that. So, the material can be good because it can help curb the amount of actual abusers/rapists.

        You could look at it both ways, but it’s all up to the person. A very, very, small percentage of people who might rape will turn to pornography instead of raping others. That’s a “good” thing. But ultimately it’s all up to that person to make the choice. The point I think we should look at is that it’s different for every person, and the fact the existence of pornography curbs the wants for some people just happens to be a good side thing.

        Therefore it actually reverses the argument that “porn causes rape” and rather “porn reduces rape”, as shown by that study.

        But the ultimate position to be taken is that it’s the individuals choice.

    • 8. sru  |  April 23, 2010 at 1:17 am

      The attached URL contains some relevant data regarding the “study of pornography”. You may find it interesting. I also remember seeing similar data on wikipedia’s Pornography article – sadly it was completely rewritten from scratch (right now they have a separate arcitle on that: Social effects of pornography) and doesn’t seem to contain the valuable information I’ve seen earlier.

      Reply
  • 9. Gerardo Tejada  |  April 23, 2010 at 4:20 am

    In renaissence and XVIII century Romance novels (mostly with spicy hot scenes) where prohibited, Giovani Bocaccio said that his book was meant to realease the “flame” within the females because they couldnt relase herselfs with war, hunt , and other male activities.

    Christian moralfags burned those novels

    Reply
    • 10. FallenHeaven  |  April 23, 2010 at 9:02 am

      Good that you brought this up as it is a prime example of what is happening right now. Instead of brainwashed religious crusaders burning books, a major company is denying access to a website, and several anti-human rights activists are trying to push for bannings of something that has not been related to anything wrong other than the basis of their own morals and beliefs, whether or not these beliefs/morals are brainwashed into them is another story. =^.^=

      Reply
      • 11. m3rryweather  |  April 23, 2010 at 11:53 pm

        If you’re positing that morals are a subjective matter, then I can say rape is an acceptable tradition in my country. Why should you push your sense of morals on me?

      • 12. FallenHeaven  |  April 25, 2010 at 6:33 am

        I’m terribly sorry, what I posted was not on morals. It is based on fact and logic that these things are related. I do not have a sense of morals to push onto other people so I must ask you to explain what your getting this from.

      • 13. m3rryweather  |  April 26, 2010 at 5:41 am

        You say you’re using fact and logic but what you’re saying is an opinion.

        Book burning is a fact.

        Activists pushing to ban is a fact.

        To equate these two separate incidents as the same is an opinion.

        To say that the mentioned activists are pushing for “bannings of something that has not been related to anything wrong other than the basis of their own morals and beliefs” is an opinion.

      • 14. FallenHeaven  |  April 28, 2010 at 6:41 pm

        To begin with, neither of these are morals that I’m trying to push on anyone. Why are you changing the subject to whether these are opinions or not?

        “To equate these two separate incidents as the same is an opinion.”

        On the subject of these two being related, it’s still a group trying to take other peoples rights away, hence, these are logically related.

        “To say that the mentioned activists are pushing for “bannings of something that has not been related to anything wrong other than the basis of their own morals and beliefs” is an opinion.”

        For the second one, the burden of proof is on you. There is no study linking these materials to child abuse or linking it to just about anything else for that matter, therefor anyone pushing for a ban of these materials has no reason to do so other than morals and/or beliefs, but if you’ve found a study that has been conducted by an independent non-governmental body I would much like to read it.

      • 15. m3rryweather  |  April 29, 2010 at 1:05 pm

        Your initial assertion is about morals. I’m not saying you’re pushing your own. I’m saying your assertion is based off of an idea that morals are subjective and I see it as questionable.

        No matter how well an opinion is “logically connected” that does not make it a brute fact. To make a general comparison of two examples with radically different contexts is presumptuous.

        I don’t understand why I must give proof for your own assertion. I’m saying that all you’re stating are opinions and not facts. If you’re saying the activists are basing their decisions on “their own morals” than you must be the one who must give proof.

      • 16. FallenHeaven  |  May 2, 2010 at 10:42 am

        “Your initial assertion is about morals. I’m not saying you’re pushing your own. I’m saying your assertion is based off of an idea that morals are subjective and I see it as questionable.”

        Morals are subjective and relative, a product of time and culture. Everyone has a different brain and everyone will view them differently. If you don’t like the way I think, I’ll just say I agree that we disagree and move on. However if this is a matter of only basing this opinion in the view of absolutism, there is no argument to be had as it reflects arrogance rather than reasoning. The entirety of this basis is a fallacy.

        “No matter how well an opinion is “logically connected” that does not make it a brute fact. To make a general comparison of two examples with radically different contexts is presumptuous.”

        I didn’t say they were all based on facts, I said “It is based on fact and logic that these things are related” as a whole, not as per individual analysis, moving on.

        “I don’t understand why I must give proof for your own assertion. I’m saying that all you’re stating are opinions and not facts. If you’re saying the activists are basing their decisions on “their own morals” than you must be the one who must give proof.”

        My proof is that you have no proof, that is why I asked you to “Prove me wrong.” Until there is proof, I will say this as it is the only deduction possible. “Think of the children?” not proven to be connected and based on morals. “It is not psychologically normal” Debunked, as there is no current relation between fictional 2 dimensional characters and humans. I have asked a few people but they can’t seem to find any more arguments than that. If you can provide some, I’ll be happy to dissect them. =^.^=

  • 17. Tyrenol  |  April 25, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Why even punch yourself, Derm?

    I, myself, don’t advocate the use of children as objects for sexual gratification; whether real for fiction. It has less to do with laws and more to do about mainstream society.

    “That neighbor who lives in his house all the time and stares at my children like pieces of meat. Who knows what harm he might do to them.”

    It’s unfortunate that there are only a few legal places to get laid (Nevada, Germany and other parts of Europe, et al) where the age is regulated in SOME way.

    Then again, I can only pull out $#00 a year to go from California to Nevada. And everyone’s either running scams or undercover cops here.

    You’re right, though. It IS about the lack of self-faith in trying to pick up chicks without wanted to screw them.

    Reply
  • 18. glothelegend  |  April 29, 2010 at 7:07 am

    Personally, I don’t have the slightest interest in a naked anime chick (that being said, a naked real life chick peaks my interest, and then some). But at the same time, I don’t think that they should censor any of this.

    Anime could be considered art if you think about it, so shouldn’t they censor all art including underage girls (of which there are many)? I just hate censoring. Let people make their own decisions behind closed doors.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Trackback this post  |  Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed


I’M IN THE ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMY.

And the prophet spake, saying: "Frak this, for my faith is a shield proof against your blandishments!"

- Alem Mahat, The Book of Cain, Chapter IV, Verse XXI

Email: DrmChsr0atgmaildotcom (at=@, dot=.)

RSS HAMSTER SOUNDBITES.

  • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.

Who needs a calendar?

April 2010
S M T W T F S
« Mar   May »
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930  

The stale pile of randomness

I have been anally violated

  • 541,039 times OMG

UNOWN, I CHOOSE YOU

HEE HEE HEE.


%d bloggers like this: